research universities in the U.S., as well as two in Canada. Here I look into the papers he references in response. What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. How can I help? He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. And so when she was healed, the first thing she noticed was her feet were flat on the ground. We know that the healing was observed after the prayer, but we don't know if it caused it because we can't rule out an earlier recovery that went unnoticed. Thus we will more often hear from the healing crowd. Jonathan McLatchie vs Jonathan Pearce, documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=control&category_name=&submit=Search, this woman was healed of Parkinson's with "Energy Healing". my peers call to work on behalf of all of our institutions.. She's on her deathbed," Strobel explained. Snyder, who became president of Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) in July 2007, will join the Association of American Universities (AAU) by the end . So that's why Christianity featured that part. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. And he went to a retreat for the healing of the mind. I just was trying to write a footnote for my Acts Commentary because one of the arguments against the reliability of Acts, you know, one fifth of Acts or one third of Mark roughly, deal with miracles. 2022 Blaze Media LLC. Back home it happens. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. When his wife prayed, having been told that he was gone, the heart monitor "sprang back to life" and then the doctors were able to revive him. She was doing her work in history. One miracle in particular stands out. Scott Rae: Well that gets us to the books that I want to talk more about today. After a year or two of investigation they finally concluded, and we have all of the medical documentation, that no, he had, the way they put it in their letter from the Social Security Administration, "You have received a remarkable return of your visual acuity, therefore, you are no longer qualified for disability." Craig Keener: Yeah. And she'd also been teaching some at the University there, but she had to flee the capital sick with malaria. Barbara Snyder (Barbara Cummiskey Snyder) healed from multiple sclerosis. A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. In 2023 Robert L. White All Rights Reserved. Author and evangelist Lee Strobel was once an atheist who served as the legal affairs editor for the Chicago Tribune before embarking on a quest to try and disprove Christianityan effort that ironically led him to embrace faith. How do we know the initial diagnosis was accurate? The fact that there are only two or three of these, that these are the best they have, given all of this time is damning evidence against their case that miracles actually occur at even the 1% level. the natural explanation -- some natural healing plus the imaging being unreliable, the secondary measurement said "approximately 6 feet" as opposed to 3ft, so the "approximately" is doing a lot of work, perhaps under extreme damage there is more healing, but we haven't seen this in other cases because of the rarity of the effect. I don't think that there's an abridged version of that coming out anytime soon. Keener: in terms of anomalies whether they're anomalies or whether they're explainable in some way it helps if there's a pattern. Barbara spent years paralyzed, but stood up in an instant. That is the definition of supernatural. Is this case unusual? Case Western Reserves Board of Trustees She never quotes her doctors about her condition, and provides no documentation whatsoever -- there is simply nothing to work with. This doesn't affect the doctor reports, but the personal reports. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Patients in the prayer group had less congestive heart failure, fewer cardiac arrests, fewer episodes of pneumonia, were less often intubated and ventilated, and needed less diuretic and antibiotic therapy. From the Send Proof film they admit that they can't publish Bruce Van Natta case because the accurate measurement of the length of intestine needed to verify the result we don't have the technology yet. I am confident that Case Western And I think with a little imagination one can probably control for things like spontaneous remission and background effects and even some of the kind of unknown effects by a suitably designed experiment. Scott Rae: That's staggering to think about. Keener gives a lot of waffle, and then some video of the woman that is thoroughly unconvincing. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. Which I agree with, at least technically. Nathan: it's like he understands broadly what he should be doing but then that stands in place of him actually doing it it's like as if just finally having a bit of a grasp of how we should reason about the these things.suppose we agree with you now well why is that the best explanation? it's hard to trust someone who says things like this, when we know that the measurement afterward was 20/100 -- far from perfect. So she basically pulls the tube out of her throat, says, Go find my parents [and] jumps out of bed.. Don't presume what I'll believe, show me evidence of an arm growing back first, then perhaps we'll see -- but I'd need the proper controls. It is for these sorts of problems that randomized controlled studies are developed and are necessary to distinguish effect from non-effect. After his conversion, Lee worked briefly as a pastor before moving into an apologetics ministry focusing on writing and video productions. As an Atheist, of course it didn't. Feel free to reach out if you want more specifics on a given quote or study. What is being missed here is it shouldn't matter what the skeptic says -- the evidence should be strong enough to convince the skeptic. Otherwise, not. He ended up reading and it led him into a life of scholarship. Craig serves with me on the Board of Evangelical Theological Society. My oldest grandson loves to run and is always racing ahead, scampering up hills and sliding down ravines faster than the rest. As I've said before, the fact that there are no videos of this sort is strong evidence against the veracity of miracles. Charisma News - Informing believers with news from a Spirit-filled perspective, The Real-Life Miracle That Absolutely Shocked This Atheist-Turned-Evangelist, Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels, Atheist-Turned-Apologist Lee Strobel Offers Clear Evidence for the Supernatural, Atheist-Turned-Apologist: I Would Have Smirked That Easter Falls on April Fools' Day, Click here to subscribe to the Charisma News newsletter. But in this case, he had to have the medical documentation be he'd been on disability. The statements about being brain dead are all unsubstantiated -- there was oxygen both from the chest compressions and when he was hooked up to machinery. Facebook gives people the power. Likewise, Americans are quite prone to believing in the potential occurrence of miracles. [] these things actually do tend to happen in certain circles more than more than in others and that's why for me it would be hard for me to see it as a is a coincidence. Author and evangelist Lee Strobel was once an atheist who served as the legal affairs editor for the Chicago Tribune before embarking on a quest to try and disprove Christianity an effort that ironically led him to embrace faith. But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. The one-on-one treatments, when they show an effect, are confounded by the more intense experience, the one-on-one attention, the group pressures, etc You are adding a lot of psychological elements which make it harder to establish causation. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. There was no blinding or control group so everyone in the study, subjects and experimenters, knew that every subject was getting the treatment. Here is her story. Knowledge falls on a continuum. That's a gift from God." He is the author of 24 books and there's a couple of books that I want to talk to you about today, Craig. University (CWRU) in July 2007, will join the Association of American Universities (AAU) by the Even if we couldn't explain it, we'd say "this is interesting, maybe we should look into these effects more" -- this is what we do for any other proposed medical treatments when we have only two case studies to go on. Stay up-to-date with current issues, Christian teachings, entertainment news, videos & more. 5 John Wilkes Booth's Brother and Abe Lincoln's Son . James: Keener says simultaneously that there are hundreds of millions of cases but also that none of this can be replicated. It's been shown that there is a high survival rate for patients with their heart rhythm responds to shocks. Barbara Cummiskey Snyder is on Facebook. Moreland: we asked god to give us a really good pool table just like the kind that you find in a pool hall, that isn't a cheap one that if you hit it up it shakes. Scott Rae: And then she made it safely to the U.S. and then you were reunited again. I doubt Keener has tried to actually get this done beyond the anecdotal level. "It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago," Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and "The Billy Hallowell Podcast." The Surfaris were a California garage band with an average age of 15 who had been successful enough playing at sock hops and house parties that they were able to acquire a manager. Christian news 1789; testimonies 1151; evangelism & outreach 1070; missions 993; Top Featured 862; encouragement 743; Tags. Sometimes we don't even get healing in this physical body in this life, but when it happens to any of us it's a reminder to all of us of God's plans for us. And of course there's no way to test medically because there was no medic op available. I think it also is evident that the theists aren't serious about studying these things, and are content to believe things on bad evidence. In particular, it includes an interview with Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed from advanced multiple sclerosis, as also attested by her two physicians. She was born on April 10, 1930 in Beverly, MA, a daughter of John A. and Irene (Walsh) Burns. James Fodor compares healing claims to homeopathy -- we have millions claiming an effect, and if we just counted those then we might be convinced that homeopathy was a real treatment. Pharmaceutical companies don't complain about these steps, they just do the work. James points out that God seems to choose not to use all his abilities -- he could heal amputees, even while someone is in an MRI, but chooses note to. It was assumed that Stargardt's disease was the best fit for her symptoms, but she has no family history for this genetic condition. And we give Glory to God whenever we get the opportunity to be a part of those, but it's, we don't expect that, that the Kingdom, that we'll have experienced the Kingdom in its fullest now. Why not? Anyway, so it's the story of how we got together. in economics from Southern Methodist University. "This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up, my child, and walk,'" Strobel recounted. None of us would say that all of those are authentic, but still we're talking about an awful lot of stories. Craig Keener, Michael Shermer & Elijah Stephens, Case Report of gastroparesis healing: 16 years of a chronic syndrome resolved after proximal intercessory prayer, Case report of instantaneous resolution of juvenile macular degeneration blindness after proximal intercessory prayer, Study of the therapeutic effects of proximal intercessory prayer (STEPP) on auditory and visual impairments in rural Mozambique, Delia Knox healed from being paralyzed after 22 years, Sean George comes back after a heart attack, https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/, https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests, first evidence for the accelerating universe, https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/, phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/04/06/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-1-summary/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/10/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-2-littlewoods-law/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/24/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-3-georges-argument/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-4-evaluation-premise-1c/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/06/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-5-evaluation-of-premise-a4/, evidence that someone was sick at one time, evidence that they were not sick at a later time, sometime between those two points they claimed that they were prayed for (and don't always demonstrate that they actually were prayed), they used xrays to diagnose it originally, which is not the best for soft tissue. Strobel said that he has long believed that Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels. It doesn't mean to stop praying for healing. A blessing to the rest of the Body of Christ. Just, was it last night I think, we were talking and David Dockery was sharing about Grant Osbourne, a scholar friend of ours who passed away just this past month after an amazing career of scholarship, but when he was young he had asthma. A comparison of base-rates is needed and Keener doesn't seem to care about this when it comes to miracles. One of the remarkable stories recounted in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Miracles" involves a hopelessly ill woman named Barbara Snyder, who had suffered for many years with multiple sclerosis. I was talking with Antoinette Malumbay with my wife translating for me 'cause my wife knew the story only second hand herself. Tell our listeners a little bit a how you two met and why you wrote the book, Impossible Love. I know we, we were really, really praying for him. February 4, 2019 8. Even for much more modest claims than the ones made in the above discussions, randomized-controlled studies are the gold standard. A prolific author, he has written numerous bible commentaries and other works in biblical studies, in addition to his 2 volume work, Miracles. If miracles are real then these steps -- while possibly inconvenient -- would be easy to demonstrate. Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. This is the pattern we see of something that is non-existent, and the healings follow this exact same pattern. In principle I believed it, but I was questioning witnesses with kind of a skeptical approach to try to whittle away anything that wasn't necessarily accurate. Craig Keener: Yeah. but there comes a point when enough is enough. This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up my child and walk, Strobel recounted. I misspoke in the episode for the next one, thinking the name was Barbara Snyder, but Barbara's case is an MS case. Its consultants have assisted with the recruitment of multiple senior CWRU It's all just ad hoc special pleading. You can get a free, one-month trial here. The treatment involves active physical intervention with the subject. Untrustworthy Our Cultural Knowledge Crisis, [BONUS] The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. James: can we just make it a thing to always mention that like although it's not that popular these days that deism or non-interventionist form of theism are a thing like you can totally believe in god and still not be okay with miracles? By signing up to the Blaze News newsletter you agree to receive electronic communications from Blaze Media that may sometimes include advertisements or sponsored content. That's for when the Lord returns. Then, on Pentecost Sunday, two of Synder's friends read her letters from those praying for her. Or in Matthew 12 and Luke 11 where is says, "If I by the finger of the Spirit of God drive out demons, the Kingdom of God has come upon you." This is special pleading -- wanting to hold their claims to a lower standard than other claims. DiSanto said that he would provide additional updates regarding the search We're here at the meetings at the Evangelical Theological Society talking with Dr. Craig Keener. It is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence is enough? A gymnast back in high school, Barbara hadn't walked in seven years. A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. Craig Keener: Yes. If you took our remedy, and improved, we want to hear from you. We will be fully healed with our resurrection bodies. Scott Rae: This has been an episode of the podcast Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture. As she listened, she said that she heard a male voice coming from the corner of the rooma voice she now believes was God. And she began dancing around. This phrase shows a profound lack of understanding what skepticism is. The video of the miracle itself doesn't show much, and seems to show potentially abusive behavior of people lifting her out the chair, and supporting her as she attempts to walk in a far from medically controlled environment. in economics from Southern Methodist University. The answer is simple none. I think no, because theism is vaguely defined. But she, but it happened. I also think that there is a two-stage process for investigating these and similar processes (i.e. successor. It's not just about the priors, it's the fact that to be consistent, once you raise your prior for one sort of claim you're doing it for many others -- many claims that you probably don't want to accept. Free to reach out if you took our remedy, and correcting me in its reading hand.! 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